The Best Way to Bury Your Husband

This month we read and review The Best Way to Bury Your Husband by Alexia Casale. Like all of our reviews, the first part is spoiler free.

Here's a little about The Best Way to Bury Your Husband:

A dark comedy about four women coming together to heal the damage their husbands have done––and hide their bodies once they’ve killed them

When Sally kills her husband with a cast-iron skillet, she’s more fearful of losing her kids than of disposing of a fresh corpse. That just wouldn’t be fair—not after twenty years of marriage to a truly terrible man. But Sally isn’t the only woman in town reaching the brink. Soon, Sally finds herself leading an extremely unusual self-help group, and among them there are four bodies to hide. Can they all figure out the perfect way to bury their husbands . . . and get away with it?

First to join is former nurse, Ruth, who met her husband as a single mom. Now her son is grown and her husband’s violence builds by the day until an attack on the stairs leads to a fatal accident—for him. A few doors down, Samira’s last straw comes when she discovers her husband is planning a campaign of violence against her eldest daughter, who has just come out. Janey, Sally’s best friend, has just had her first child at forty-two. Sleep-deprived Janey needs a hero to slay the monster in the fairy tales she whispers to her daughter each night . . . and as her husband’s violence escalates, it might just be her.

Together, fueled by righteous anger but tempered by a moral core, the four women must help each other work out a plan to get rid of their husbands for good. Along the way, Sally, Ruth, Samira and Janey rediscover old joys and embark on new passions in work, education, and life. Friendship and laughter really are the best medicine—and so is getting away with murder.
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Transcript

Welcome back to the Badass Literature Society where badasses come together to rate and review novels recommended by you. Hi. I'm Michael. This is Barbara. And I'm Lauren.

This month, we read The Best Way to Bury Your Husband by Alexia Casale. Let's talk a little bit about her first. A British American citizen of Italian heritage, Alexia is an author, editor, and writing consultant. She also teaches English literature and writing. After getting her master's degree in social and political sciences, then MPhil in educational psychology and technology.

Lauren, do you know what that is? What is an MPhil degree? Masters of philosophy, probably. Master of philosophy. Okay.

Both at Cambridge University. She took a break from academia and moved to New York. There, she worked on a Tony award winning Broadway show before returning to England to complete her PhD and teaching qualification. In between, she worked as a West End script critic, box office manager for a music festival, and executive editor of a human's rights human rights journal. And after reading this again, I would really like to have Alexia on the podcast as a because I feel like she has she's lived a very interesting life and to be here, and she can talk to her about all that.

She's not sure also which side of her family her dyslexia comes from, but it is resigned to the fact that madness runs in both. She loves cats, collects glass animals, and interesting knives, and has always wanted a dragon just like Barbara. Girl, same. Best bio that we've ever had. That is and that's her that's her bio.

I got that. That's awesome. That's her her own written bio. That is awesome. I I really I I was was looking forward to reading it, but it's been long enough that I've I've forgotten exactly what it said.

That's that was incredibly entertaining, and it would be fun. I feel like I would love talking to her. That's that's so many cool things that she's gotten to do in her career. She's not a horse, though. She's a dragon girl.

Dragons and knives. Right. I feel you, girl. I feel you. You wanna tell us a little bit about the book itself, Barbara?

Sure. This was originally published on March 14, 2024. The genre are dark comedy, thriller, suspense, and cozy mystery. I'm not really sure about the cozy aspect, but sure. Okay.

It is 384 pages, and it currently has a 3.73 on Goodreads and a 4 on Amazon. The other ones, there was not enough data to give a score on those. So as of this podcast recording, it has not been nominated or won any awards. Keep in mind that this just came out, so it's relatively still new. We also think it's important for readers to know what, if any, representation is in the book's read.

So for this book, there are in the ensemble cast POC characters, 1 LGBTQ plus character, and no characters with disabilities. Alright. Lauren, do you wanna give us the, back of the book summary? A dark comedy about 4 women coming together to heal the damage their husbands have done and hide their bodies once they've killed them. When Sally kills her husband with a cast iron skillet, she's more fearful of losing her kids than of disposing of a fresh corpse.

That just wouldn't be fair, not after 20 years of marriage to a truly terrible man. But Sally isn't the only woman in town reaching the brink. Soon, Sally finds herself leading an extremely unusual self help group. And among them, there are 4 bodies to hide. Can they all figure out the perfect way to bury their husbands and get away with it?

1st to join is former nurse Ruth who met her husband as a single mom. Now her son is grown and her husband's violence builds by the day until an attack on the stairs leads to a fatal accident for him. A few doors down, Samira's last straw comes when she discovers her husband is planning a campaign of violence against their eldest daughter who has just come out. Janie, Sally's best friend, has just called has just had their first child at 42. Sleep deprived Janie needs a hero to slay the monster in the fairy tales she whispers to her daughter each night.

And as her husband's violence escalates, it might just be her. Together, fueled by righteous anger but tempered by a moral core, the 4 women must help each other work out a plan to get rid of their husbands for good. Along the way, Sally, Ruth, Samara, and Jamie rediscover old joys and embark on new passions in work, education, and life. Friendship and laughter really are the best medicine, and so is getting away with murder. It is a fun a fun back of the book.

I'll give it that. So what did you think about the best way to bury your husband? And remember, no spoilers. So I'm a little torn on this book. I do have to commend the author on writing about how violence towards women is an issue, and it increased during COVID times.

But I was expecting a dark comedy, and it just seemed dark with not much humor with the back of the book. Like, there's a lot of humor thrown in in in the back of the book, and I think maybe it was just because my expectations were a little high with with the promise of dark comedy. And I just wanna give a shout out to Bat Sisters on Apple Plus. It's an amazing show. So if you're looking for dark comedy, that is the ticket right there.

So I was expecting something more like that. And when it didn't deliver, I was left a little disappointed, and it was a bit slow for me and dragged a little in the middle. And the other thing was also the book is first person Sally's point of view, and we get a few chapters of the other women introducing them and what happened in their story. And I was expecting more of that, but then after those chapters, it's just Sally. So I think maybe I would have liked it a little bit more if it would have been the other women's point of views as well, but I can get into that later on.

Yeah. I mean, I'm I was also a little bit torn on the book. I agree with Barbara that it's an important issue to write about, and it's a tricky thing to write about. And I think that the author approached all of that in a in a way that was both, you know, shining, an important bright light on this issue, while also handling it lightly enough that it's not, you know, not as heavy of a read as it could be as I'm sure some other books are that that deal with this kind of, you know, these topics. But I I think just like Barbara said, my expectations were also this was gonna be more dark comedy.

It it technically is dark comedy, but there wasn't as much of that dark humor that I was hoping, for in the book for me. Not to say it was a horrible book or anything, but it, I I think I just I really wanted that that dark humor, and I think this was a topic that could have been could have been handled in a way that that would have been a a way to to make this important conversation a little bit easier to to swallow with with more of that. And, as I was looking forward to that based on the back of the book that we had, I thought there'd be more of it than there was. But, so yeah. That that that also left me a little bit disappointed.

I also agree that there were times at the book where it was it dragged a little bit. Not to the point that, you know, I was like in a if this wasn't a podcast book, I would have DNF'd it or something because it wasn't it wasn't that bad. But, but there were definitely times where I and I think it was around the middle too, Barbara, that I, you know, was I put the book down. I was like, I've gotta keep reading. And, so that's that's never a great sign.

But, but to be honest, when getting to complete the book, I'm I am glad that I I did finish it and didn't didn't DNF it. We'll we'll get into that a little bit more later. But the just my surface level thoughts about the book. I liked this one. I thought it was entertaining.

I liked the way that it spoke on domestic violence and the way that it increased during COVID. I think that that was important, like, an important piece of information that a lot of people don't think about, and this was a good way to kinda shed light on that with in, like, I don't know. I'll talk about that a little bit more later. I enjoyed the sense of humor throughout. I thought the dry humor was entertaining.

A lot of, like, the little quips that were said throughout about, like, just making light of the fact that she murdered her husband or, like, just throughout, there was a lot of, like, little off offset comments that were said that I I laughed at. It maybe wasn't just, like, cover to cover dark humor, but I definitely thought that they did a good job incorporating it. So it was interesting to read or to hear that you guys didn't see that part, which is fine. But, yeah, I thought it was good overall. And I I don't really I felt like the pace was good.

It was a really short book, so it didn't really drag for me. Alright. So we're not gonna go under individual ratings for now. Like always, you gotta wait for that, but our group score for this book ended up being a 6.5 out of 10. So would you recommend this book?

You know, that that's an interesting question. And I I think that my answer to it is gonna be similar to a lot of books we read for this podcast, to be honest. I think that there are some people I would recommend it to, and there are other people that that I wouldn't. It like Lauren said, it is a short read. It's also about an important topic, so I I don't wanna to, you know, to diminish that by any means.

So I I think that there there is a a group of people I would recommend this to, that that enjoy, you know, the the murder mystery that that well, this isn't a murder mystery, but people that enjoy, like, that genre, I think would probably enjoy this also. So I I would recommend it. I would probably recommend it with caveat and and just let people know, like, my honest opinion just like I did a moment ago with you 2. But that's not to say that, that I don't think it's it's a book that, you know, that should be read and and is and is an important read. So I I would recommend it to some people.

I feel like I would recommend it overall. I mean, it doesn't it's not super genre specific. I enjoyed it. I would definitely give a content warning about the domestic violence and murder pieces just because there are some, like, descriptions and things about that that might bother some people. But despite the dark subject matter, I feel like the humor that they kinda weaved throughout, though maybe not as frequent as anticipated.

And then the relationships forged between the women made it just an enjoyable read for me. It was it was an easy read. It was short. It was dark, but I feel like it wasn't as heavy as it could have been because of kind of the humor that she tried to incorporate. So I am I'm not sure.

I think I could recommend this book, but with a warning that it's not super dark comedy nor suspenseful nor much of a thriller. It has its comedic moments. I'm not saying that it doesn't. It does because I found myself chuckling and and laughing at parts, but it's so few and far between with some really dark themes throughout that I wasn't expecting that. So I I I would recommend that, but I like, you guys both mentioned I would I would say with this, like, don't expect a, b, and c that this is more of of what it's what the book is actually.

But, like Laura mentioned, I really did enjoy, the the friendship between the women, and sometimes I feel like books lack that and or either they lack it all completely or they don't do a very good job of portraying the friendship between women, I think this one did a very good job of that. So I will commend that for the friendship portrayal of of all the women. That's a good point, Barbara. I think that the the the camaraderie, and the relationships between the women was probably my favorite part of the book. Okay.

So for those of you leaving us at this point, don't forget to be giving us a rating if you like us, and make sure you're leaving a review, if the podcast app you're using allows you to. Super important. Not only did it give us feedback, but it helps this podcast get seen by more people and, and let lets us reach more ears. Also, make sure you're following us on both Facebook and Instagram. Our handle there is at badasslippod.

We would love to hear from you. If you've got a book you want us to read, please let us know. Now Lauren is going to give us a short preview of what's coming up next month. Next month, we are reading Daughter of the Moon Goddess by Sue Lin Tan. Growing up on the moon, Xingyan is accustomed to solitude, unaware that she is being hidden from the feared celestial emperor who exiled her mother for stealing his elixir of immortality.

But when Xinyan's magic flares and her existence is discovered, she is forced to flee her home, leaving her mother behind. Alone, powerless, and afraid, she makes her way to the celestial kingdom, a land of wonder and secrets. Disguising her identity, she seizes an opportunity to learn alongside the emperor's son, mastering archery and magic even as passion flames between her and the prince. To save her mother, Xing Yin embarks on a perilous quest, confronting legendary creatures and vicious enemies across this the earth and skies. But when treachery looms and forbidden magic threatens the kingdom, she must challenge the ruthless celestial emperor for her dream, striking a dangerous bargain in which she is torn between losing all she loves or plunging the realm of plunging into the realm of chaos?

Plunging the realm into chaos. A captivating debut fantasy inspired by the legend of Chang, the Chinese moon goddess, in which a young woman's quest to free her mother pits her against the most powerful immortal in the realm. Daughter of the moon goddess begins an enchanting romantic duology, which weave ancient Chinese mythology into a sweeping adventure of immortals and magic, where love lies with honor, dreams are fraught with betrayal, and hope emerges triumphant. Sounds good. I'm so excited.

It does. It does so great. Too. Oh, did you already start it, Barbara? Jeez.

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Now for those of you sticking around for the spoilers, here we go. As always, we're gonna start our second half of this podcast by declaring the badass character award winner. Barbara, who is your nomination for the badass character award this time? I would pick either Edwina or Layla. I I love their dry humor, and they're mostly the ones bringing the comedy in the book, I feel like.

And I just absolutely love their characters. They're they they were my 2 favorites out of the non core group. I don't know if I'm saying her name right. I said Edwina. I don't know.

Is that how Edwina. That's right. Okay. Yeah. It's funny.

I so I I haven't seen either of you guys' notes on this since since I made the document. And it's funny, Barbara, because those were literally the 2 people I gonna mention. Like, Edwina is my my real pick because I think she's the OG badass in this book. And we'll obviously talk about her some more later. But, I also thought that, like, Lilo is probably my second favorite character.

Like, the she was such a a such a badass in her own right. But, Edwina is my official nomination for the badass character award. I too picked Edwina. I feel like she's the truest badass because she's, like, the OG. And you don't really I mean, we've talked there's a question on this later, but, technically, you may not know how much of a badass she is until the end.

But, True. I feel like throughout, I liked her. And then I also commended Sally for her perseverance and willpower. So honorable mention for Sally, but congratulations, Edwina. Edwina, you have won the badass character award.

Please, send us an email, and we'll get that, get that plaque over to you right away. Yes. We will. You can, hang it above the cherry tree in your garden. Yes.

Under the memorial. Yep. Yep. Where she won at life. Anyway, let's talk a little bit about the characters in this book before we jump into our questions.

So the main character I I think is is definitely Sally. Which one of you would like to talk about Sally? I'm gonna say Lauren because Lauren actually voted for her as a sub badass character. So Lauren, why don't you talk us a little bit about Sally for us? I can talk about Sally.

So Sally is kind of our main character. She, is our fearless leader, essentially. She's in a domestic violence relationship with her husband. They have kids that are no longer living at home. So, like, adult children, I guess, or her daughters at least in college age, I think.

She the book kind of opens with her in the middle of a fight, essentially, with her husband. We learned that her husband has a very violent history. He has tended to be very abusive. And in the scene that that we're getting to kind of witness through her perspective, he's I don't remember what it was he was mad about now. But He didn't do his coffee right.

Oh, yeah. He got mad about the little It was the wrong color. The coffee, yeah, it was not or was I think it was tea, wasn't it? Oh, yes. Sorry.

Yes. It was because it's there there in the UK. Yeah. The UK. And Yep.

English people are very particular about their tea color. You have to have just the right amount of milk or not, you know, whatever. So he is mad about that and then ends up, like like, putting her hand on the stove and, like, burning her. And she there's, like, a frying pan on the stove, and she basically just whacks him in the head with the frying pan. And she didn't intend to kill him, I don't think, but that's what happened.

So very much self defense. That was that's what kinda kick starts Sally's story. She ends up and it's during the whole thing is set during, like, COVID times. So, when everybody is supposed to be social distancing, you're supposed to be isolated in your house. So she now then has a corpse that she has to figure out what to do with, and that is Sally.

And then she leads the rest of them, you know, later on. She kind of is the the boss lady for throughout. The de facto leader for sure. Let's see. Barbara, do you wanna talk about Ruth a little bit?

Sure. Ruth is used to be a nurse, and she had a has a son, and then she gets married to I don't know. I would I I said his name in my head, like, but I know it's not in the line now. But, that's how I said it because it's just He's just Lionel. I know it's Lionel, but I just kept I don't know why.

I'm just gonna say, like, Lionel. So Lionel. And, that's how I make humor for myself. Anyways, so she's married to Lynette Lynelle. I can't say that without a straight face.

Anyways, and, he she's also in abusive relationship with him, And it's kind of same old story. Right? Like, he gets in this violent match with her and she runs up the stairs trying to get away from him because she knows it's gonna lead to something bad. And he chases after her, and she kicks him off. And he falls down the stairs never to awaken again.

And she I I feel like Ruth is the the heart of the group. You know, she's very she's very caring, very nurturing, and the medical one too since she's the nurse. So she kind of helps the group with the medical questions and how to get that kind of stuff to do. And, yeah, I I feel like she's she's the heart of the group. She's the one who keeps them, like, tried and true.

She's like, maybe this isn't, like, the the correct way of doing this or, like, you know, she she feels guilty. I think she's the one who feels the the worst out of all of them of what they did to their husbands and wants like a, like, a penance type thing. Yep. I would definitely say that's an accurate description. I love it.

See next in our our gang of murderers is Samira. Samira is, one of the other one of the other neighbors. Her she is do you know where exactly? I know she's of Middle Eastern descent, but did the book actually say where Pakistan thought that they talked about. Yeah.

Yes. Pakistan. Pakistan. Pakistan. Pakistani.

So that that's where her family is from. Her husband, unsurprisingly, for people that are familiar with, the the traditional culture of of Pakistan and other countries in the Middle East, is very, controlling and domineering, and they have ways that they're supposed to be and, you know, their whole arranged marriage thing and all of that. Samira essentially kills her husband because of what she's afraid is gonna happen to their daughter, because their daughter has recently come out. Their daughter Leila, who talked about it before, is the potential badass award winner, come out of the closet. And, in response to that, her husband is furious and wants to take the family to Pakistan and force her to be with some some man to, try to marriage her.

Try to try to fix try to fix her, and so that leads Samira to murder her husband. I mean, her her husband was also abusive to her She was. As well. She was. Yep.

I would say of the our core group of women that have murdered their husbands, she is definitely she seems to have the most remorse for what she did. She's very morally torn between like, obviously, I think in her core, she knows it was the right thing because she was protecting her kids, and herself, but she really struggles with the fact that that she did it too. So there's a there's a Ruth did too, though. Ruth Ruth did too, but not I think Samira's was just more obvious because of, the the jokes about the dead husband that the daughter would make, Leila would make hilarious. Which were very funny.

Like, that's the highlight of the dark humor in the book. And then you'd see, Samira coming out to no. Hey. Woah. No.

We're, you know, we're sorry for her. It's lost. Yada yada yada. Mhmm. That's just a snapshot of Samira.

Which one of you wants to talk about Layla? So she is the, obviously, the daughter of Samira. She's the oldest. Right? Yes.

And she, so she comes out to her parents, like we just talked about, and then Nope. Not on purpose, though. Right. Not on purpose. And then I think Samira tries to protect the the kids from what she did to the dad, and Leila finds out.

And then Leila's kind of the in between, I would say. Like, Leila's then responsible for, like, protecting the younger sister who I can't remember her name right now. Miriam. Miriam from kind of being privy to everything that's going on. Leila insists on kind of being involved and helping and all of those things and is just kind of caught in the middle of all of the kinda shitstorm, honestly.

Mhmm. But she'd she's a very immature yeah. I liked her. High school junior. Right?

Yes. I believe that. Process of, like, getting ready for college. Yeah. Okay.

Yep. Let's see. Next character and the last one of our, core group of women, is Janie. Barbara, do you wanna talk a little bit about Janie? Oh, man.

So let me give a nonopinionated overview of Janie. Janie is Sally's best friend. They've been best friends since childhood. They grew up together, but Janey kind of exiles Sally after just getting frustrated with Sally not leaving her abusive husband. So she they kind of cut ties with each other.

And I think it's been, like, 5 years since they've actually, like, talked to one another. She recently has had a child, and her husband was all about gung ho. Let's have children. Blah blah blah blah. And as soon as she gets pregnant, she isn't giving him 100% of her attention to him, he gets abusive.

So out of all the marriages, I believe hers was the one that started later with the abuse. It wasn't until she got pregnant that he got crappy towards her, whereas the other ones, I think it was, like, pretty soon after getting married that the abuse started. Outside of that, Jany is the pessimistic out of the group. She always has little quips about how everything's gonna go south, and she doesn't have a very grand outlook in life. I don't blame her given the fact that she just had a child and her husband was a a d back to her throughout the whole process.

So it's appropriate that the order has lined up for me to talk about the husbands, which are listed altogether as the next, next character. So the the husbands are, I would say, pretty minor characters in this book. We obviously get, some flashbacks to the the things that they did. And we'd obviously the so the book is primarily told in 1st person from Sally's perspective. The only time it's not in 1st person from Sally's perspective is when we're getting a third person view of the situation and the scene when the other women murder their husbands and and why.

So the husbands are, Jim, Sally's husband, Keith, Ruth's no. Keith is, Janie's husband. Lionel is Samira's husband, and Yafir is Ruth's husband. Did I get that right? No.

No. Oh my god. Okay. Oh my god. Jim is Sally.

Sally. Jim is Sally. Keith is Jamie. Lynel is Ruth, and Yafir is Samira's. Yes.

Thank you. That's true. Alright. So, as far as the husbands, that's that's them. Jim is Sally's husband.

We get very little about, like we look little of him while he's alive, I guess. We get the scene at the very beginning of the book where she kills him. And he's we get all sorts of stories about how big of an a hole he is. And, the the author, I think, did a really good job at even though the husbands weren't, like, major characters in the story, like, in inserting them into everything in a way that we got to understand, like, how not evil, that's not the right word, I guess, but how how negatively they impacted all these people's lives. Like, Jim, for example, he's in one chapter, but we constantly are talking about, like, how, you know, his his son is afraid to call.

Their son is afraid to call their mom because they're afraid that their husband's gonna answer, and he's gonna throw a fit and be in a butt a butthead and then hurt or yell at the mom afterwards. Keith, we get the most of, Janie's husband, because we have a couple of chapters, about Janie before she actually does the deed. And he. So it's it's, the the way that the husbands were intertwined while not being intertwined was I thought that was really, really fascinating. Very talented by the on the author's perspective to, even though we don't see a lot of their time alive, we get a good perspective on why and why these women did what they did and what they lived with before they did.

And then our final character is Edwina, and I'm gonna let Barbara talk about Edwina because I think that will be the most entertaining. Oh, no. Well, I mean, Edwina is Sally's across from neighbor, and she's what the book wants you to think is a stereotypical, like, nosy neighbor. Like, the Karen. Yeah.

Like, the Karen. Like, yeah. This would be the Karen. Like, constantly checking, like, if people are social distancing, you can't be outside for more than an hour to do your outside walk or whatever exercise and stuff like that. Like, she's very to the book.

Like, this is how you do things. You cannot stray away from this. And but, like, if you read Edwina through Sally's point of view, you're not gonna you're gonna miss the subtleties of, like, her humor, her dry sense of humor, and how she literally is guiding Sally because she knows. She's very smart. She knows exactly what Sally and the rest of the girls or the women the rest of the women did.

And it's like it's an inside joke just between her because she's like, I know what y'all did. So then she's like slowly trying to help them without telling them I know what you did. And then at the very end their gardening mentor all throughout. Exactly. She's like a a pro gardener, and so, like, Sally's, like, getting asking her for, like she she said, oh, I started a gardening club during COVID with these ladies.

And so they think that Edwina just thinks that they're, like, gardeners the whole time. She's warm. Yeah. What I'm curious to know is, like, I feel like Edwina knew what was going on behind closed doors with Sally and Jim, and she's trying to protect her and the only way she knew how without getting involved because you just never know. Like, I'm sure it's one of those things where it's like, what if you do too much and then he's gonna take it out on Sally and she doesn't wanna cause that.

You know? So it's like her she was trying to, like, I feel like in a very subtle way help Sally with Jim. And then obviously, we get the reveal that she was also in an abusive marriage and murdered her husband. Yeah. She was the OG.

When we've been by OG, she was the first one that did this. Yes. She was. Yeah. I think I think you're probably right, Barbara, that she was trying to do whatever she could without making too many waves and hurting someone that she was trying to, you know, in some ways, in her own way, protect, and she knew how that was.

Well, she probably overheard fights and things over the course of time, so she probably had a good idea when the house got quiet, and now you're all of a sudden gardening that Right. Yeah. And all of a sudden, you're doing all this stuff without Jim. Like, he was always the one who's super controlling and would leave the house and didn't let her. Now, suddenly, she's leaving the house.

She's like, Yeah. No. That's true. Anyway, we can move on to our discussion questions now. The first one is the novel deals with serious issues like domestic violence and female empowerment.

How effectively does Alexia Casale balance these themes with the dark comedy elements of the story? I feel like it's a hard line to walk between the serious issues and the comedy. And I was expecting a lighter book and not so heavy on the dark themes to the back of the book. Like, yes, it mentions domestic violence, but I didn't I didn't think it would lean so much on the seriousness of it. So I think calling this a dark comedy did it a disservice because if I would've known, like, yes, it's got a bit of humor and stuff like that, but if it was more of like, hey.

This is a serious issue. I'm gonna bring light to it. I think I would have gone with a different perspective or a different, what is the word I'm looking for? I guess whatever. Yeah.

I I think given how the book was written, I I feel like if she would have put too much light elements in comedy, I think it would have it would not have come off well. I think it's either you'd that this is the balance, and either you lighten up on the on the seriousness of it to give in to the humor of the thing or go what she did, which is just like, here's, like, the reality of of these situations with a little sprinkleness of the comedy. So in that regard, I think she did the best that she could with how she wrote the book. I was just expecting something different. And because of that, I think that's why I felt the way I did about the book overall.

I I would definitely agree with with a lot of what you said. I I think that, like, exactly like Barbara said, it's a it's a very thin line. And I think that it's the author understood the importance of telling this story about, you know, women's empowerment and women's camaraderie and dealing with domestic violence in, you know, situations that that are all too common. And I think that while, like Barbara, I was expecting more dark comedy, from the book, and I think that that's because of the back of the book description. The back of the book definitely makes it feel like it's going to be a lot heavier on the comedy.

I do think that the author did a really good job at balancing that that fine line, inserting some comedic elements because like Barbara said, there were definitely moments where I did laugh as I was reading it, but there were also moments where I was like, oh, oh my god. And, like, you know, shocked. And there was there was definitely some suspenseful moments too that we'll get into later. But, I think that that that overall, the author did a really good job of balancing that. It's a it's a very tricky thing to balance such a serious topic, of domestic violence with, you know, and making it light hearted still, and and fun to read.

And I think that at the end of the day, she did a good job balancing that. Yeah. I feel like it was balanced well. I think the balance allowed for certain people to be able to connect with the dark subject in an easier way. I don't think subjects like this should or have to ever be filtered through a lighter lens, but in this situation, it was really well done, and I think it was probably an attempt to appeal to a wider crowd.

I also just feel like a lot of people resort to humor as a form of coping with difficult things, and so this was kind of how I read it. Especially, like, Sally, just throughout like, she would make comments, like, throughout the whole thing that I would just, like, chuckle at. Like, she would say, oh, like, Jim would hate this. Oh, well, I guess he can't because he's in the wrapped up in this tarp desiccating. Like, you know, like, just dark comments that I guess you could read them as not funny, but I thought they were kinda funny.

Maybe that's just my morbid sense of humor, I guess. It's kinda like part of it's like, if you don't laugh, you're you'll cry sort of thing. And so I that's how I read it was, okay, a lot of people can relate to the sense of using comedy or making light of things in order to cope with heavy shit. So Yeah. And I think that just to to add on to that a little bit, I think that making it and I because I agree with you, Lauren, that, you know, you don't have to make light of these serious topics to to tell a good story about them.

But I think that in some ways, that maybe expands the people who will read the book because I think that there are a lot of people, like, for example and and I wanna be clear. I'm not throwing Barbara out of the bus at all here. Like but I know that Barbara thinks these stories are super important, and they're it's important that these stories get told. But I know on the same token, when when she reads, she's trying to escape and, you know, get get out of the the depressing times that we live in. And so sometimes it's she's not the person.

And I do the same thing. I she's not the person who will go and pick up a book that's about a super serious, heavy, real life thing because when we read, we want to get away from the heavy real life things. And so by making this more of a dark comedy, I think for people like Barbara and I, we're we're more likely, even outside of a podcast setting, to read a book that has a a lighter dark comedy spin to it, than than just a serious tone. So I think that that's a a good way to get Right. More people to to read it.

And, hopefully, that was okay, Barbara. I was I really, was that did I describe that appropriately without, Yeah. That's fine. Okay. I mean, I just I like the book.

I just if I would've known the theme over it been that, I think it I feel like I have to mentally prepare myself for stuff, and I was not mentally prepared for this. I was mentally prepared for, like, a light a lighter book. I was not Uh-huh. Prepared for that. So it would honestly, it would have been nice to have known that, I think, going into the book and how heavy the subject matter.

Like, not to say, like, obviously, it mentions in the back of the book, like, you know, like, it's domestic violence and they murder their husbands. But, like, I have watched things where they've it's still about this, but they don't go into such detail about what is happening and stuff like that. And they make it I don't know. I don't know if I'm even making any sense or anything like that. But, yes.

Yeah. Yeah. Totally makes sense. I mean, I think, yeah, the back of the book talks about domestic violence and talks about kind of those pieces. So I was mentally prepared for that in a way, but I don't know that I was that it prepares people for, like, maybe the descriptions of like, I get I think what you're saying is, like, what is it?

There's a Netflix show that is similar to this. I can't think of what it is right now. But it's it's much more, like, humor based versus I feel like this is more dark with humor weaved in versus, like, funny with dark weaved in, if that makes sense. Right. Yeah.

Guess that's kinda like the show Barbara mentioned earlier. Yes. Like, Bat Sisters literally is, like, a group of sisters, 1 dude or one sister is married to a a terrible husband, and the other sisters group together and say, okay. We have to murder him and make it look like an accident. And, like, each episode is them trying to murder him, and it's like, but, like, really, it's not.

But, like, I was expecting that kind of a a theme or the the the tone of the book to be more like that and not this. Once again, I'm not saying that is bad. Just wonder you know, would have been nice to know. Yeah. No.

I totally totally understand what you're saying there. See. Let's see. Next question. How do Sally, Ruth, Samira, and Janie evolve throughout the novel?

What key moments contribute to their character development? Gosh. That's a that's a really deep question that I came up with. So they they, they they really do. They they they evolve a lot.

And I think that, like I was saying before, the the friendship and the relationships between the the core group of women was my favorite part of the story. And so seeing the development of all of them both together and separately was also probably my favorite part of the book. And so, you know, they they start off as kind of this is gonna sound horrible, but kind of what you would expect for women in their situation. They they are broken. They have been kicked down their whole life.

They have been made to feel small, and said that that is how they should be is small and secondary and not, not, you know, important. And so it was really, really inspiring and cool to see these women kind of, in some cases, find themselves again, like in the case of Sally and Janie, especially. Sally had been molded down this tiny, tiny, tiny version of herself. And to see her after her husband dies start kind of coming out of her shell and remembering the things that she used to love and the things made her happy before. And, you know, hearing her talk about her best for her best friend, Janie, that she did falling out with and, like, how much that hurt her that she lost this friend and then to see their relationship kind of come back together and then to find out why the relationship fell apart.

And it was just the the characters made this book for me. And so to see to see them grow both separately and together, it was a beautiful thing. I I really, really enjoyed, watching, these women find themselves again. And, you know, Sally has a thing. She's she's make making these lists, and one of them is like a list of the things she has to do to get rid of Jim's body, which is the serious part.

And then the other one is a list of things she she's going to do to make herself happy. And it's it's little stuff, but it's it's really it it was really awesome to see the growth, of these women finding themselves again and, you know, remembering that there is more to life and, at the same time, being heartbroken that they let these controlling asshole men keep them down for so long. I I really I really enjoyed their character development is what I'm trying to say. But, so, yeah, that's I feel like there's not a lot to add to that. That's that pretty well sums up what I was gonna say too.

I mean, they watching them come from quite literally a victim perspective mindset because they were being victimized over and over at home to then becoming kind of more empowered. And then the empowerment that they have at the end, once they get away with it or whatever. It was it was enjoyable to see. I think, like Michael said, seeing them kind of develop confidence in finding finding themselves. Even, like, Ruth, I feel like throughout was kind of the one that needed to be reassured over and over.

Like, she's like, I really should just be in prison sort of thing. Like, she's feeling all this guilt for what she did, and and Sally's like, no. Like, he should have been in prison for what he did to you, and, like, you were acting in self defense sort of thing. And I think seeing her final like, to the conclusion that, like, I was a victim, like, this wasn't like, not that it's ever justified to take a life, but we'll talk about that later. But, like, seeing her kind of come into, you know what?

Like, I was in a really bad situation, and I am worth more than that kind of thing. And just seeing all of their character arcs kind of coming into their own, I guess, again, and just the happiness and the lightness that she writes them with at the end versus the beginning was cool to see. Yeah. I think this was done very well. Where some books struggle to show the evolution of characters.

I think the author did an amazing job of this. She how they grow into themselves throughout the novel was very beautiful to see. I think that and their friendship were the two highlights for me reading the book was just to see how they started at the beginning and their mindsets to seeing them grow into themselves and allow themselves to be their true selves with each other. And then later on, out in the world and stuff like that was awesome. I I think she did a a a wonderful job at it.

And to to Lauren's point, we're now gonna talk about the justification. The women in this novel resort to murder to escape their abusive situations. How did this affect your perception of the characters, and do you think their actions were justified? Honestly, I felt like most of their actions were justified. I feel like Samira's situation is probably the only one where I would question whether murder was a bit extreme.

But the fact that she didn't really feel she had another option, I can empathize with that. And I can't I guess this is another one later, but I can't pretend to understand culturally what that looks like for her because I obviously have never lived in that culture. The only thing that I thought of was, like, her situation wasn't like a physical self defense thing like some of the other ones were. It was more of a feeling trapped in other ways and feeling, like, threatened in other ways and trying to protect her daughter, and that was just the only way that she kind of came up with to do that. I still feel like he deserve he deserved it to an extent.

That was the only one that I thought, okay. Like, maybe there could have been an alternative to, like, fleeing the country or, you know, things like that just, to get away. But as far as affecting perception of the characters, I feel like from jump, we learn that, like, even from the back of the book, you kinda know that this is a thing. So it didn't really affect that for me. And so, yeah, I feel like I feel like personally in domestic violence situations, there should be lesser charges.

We talked about this. I talked about this with another friend that read this book, but that should be taken into consideration when these things get get to to trial. But, obviously, I don't get to make those decisions. So First off, I wanna just preface this with I don't like that it's we're using the word murder. It was self defense for, I would say, 100% self defense in 2 out of the 4 cases.

2 other ones, it's kind of, like, the blurry line there where it's, like, was it, was it not type thing, and we'll we'll discuss that later. But so to call it, I don't like calling it murder. It's self defense. So the issue isn't that they killed their husbands. The issue is that they didn't report it.

That's what I have an issue with. Obviously, then if they did, we wouldn't have the novel. I'm not, like, trying to, like, say that. Like, obviously, I'm just trying to say was it justified. Their actions were justified in that it was self defense even, I think, Samira's.

You have to remember that the culture that Samira comes from, like and if you read the back of the book, and I honestly, I remember reading the story where, I believe it was the daughter of someone or, like, a I don't even know. Maybe she was the wife. She's a very young wife to this guy, and she left, and they murdered her. They literally murdered her because she left instead of, like, staying with him and be like, okay. I'm okay with this.

So with that in mind, her life and her life and her children's life, especially Layla, is threatened because of that. So with all of this to say, like, is it ever justified? I don't yeah. I mean, I guess, like, in this sense, yes. They're what I the issue is their actions after aren't justified.

Like, covering it up instead of just going to the police. And I'm not saying that that what they did is wrong. Like, I get it. I mean, 9 out of 10 times, how do you prove that your husbands were abusing you? They they haven't gone to the police before.

They haven't They never reported it. They never reported it. I'm sure, you know, like, for Sally's reasoning, she, Jim would always hide where he hit her and and, and bruised her. So it's it's like he knew to hide that. So, you know, like, places where people wouldn't see.

So it's like that he was so it's it's one of those things where it's like, how do you prove this? Like, how it's your word against a dead man's. You know? And if you get a, here in the US, if you get a jury of people who don't believe you, it doesn't matter, like, how well the self defense is or how well, like, this actually it doesn't matter because people are going to say, nah, man. You did it on perfect.

So it's like, I understand. I'm not saying I I don't. All of this was justified. It's just once again, I understand why they didn't go to the police. So it's it's one of those it's it's hard.

You know? It's hard to to be moral gray area. It is. And and it's one of the it's like the $1,000,000 question that you see time and time again here in the US where these women are going to jail for murdering their husband or their their partner or their spouse because of this exact thing where it was in self defense. And they say, like, hey, this has been going on, but it's like, how do you prove that?

You know? So it's it's, yeah, it's it's you know? That's what makes the book that is like here's the other side of the coin is like, well, this is what you're going to get when peep when women feel like they're not being listened to. They feel like they have to go to extremes to Yeah. I can't remember which, documentary it was that we watched a while back, but it was essentially like a domestic violence situation.

And the wife ended up defending herself, and she got caught. I mean, she wasn't trying to hide it. Like, it was a whole thing. And when she was interviewed later, like, she basically said that she feels safer in prison than she did in her home. So she's like, honestly, this is an improvement, which is just so sad.

And, like, the fact that, like, she has to do that legally because that you know, that's just the way that it is. But, also, like, that's where I say, like, I feel like the judicial system should have some kind of clause for if there's, like, domestic violence, the abuse, the mental health piece, like and, obviously, like, should they have consequences? Yes. But should it be the same as somebody who's just cold blooded killer out there murdering innocent people? No.

Like, I feel like it should be there should be, like, some kind of lesser charge. Like, you do 1 or 2 years instead of life. Like, those sorts of things. But Yeah. I, I don't have much to add on top of what you guys said, to be honest, on this one.

I think that, in all of these situations in this book, the actions were justified, you know, for and I think that, like, if you look at this and just, you know, from just a strictly legal perspective, then the the the issue was that not that they did what they did, but that they chose to to try to cover up their their what they did afterwards. And I think that that the fact that they felt like they had to do that instead of calling the police and saying, you know, hey. A, b, and c has happened. This happened. That was in self defense.

I was fearing for my life. And they clearly did not trust the justice system to believe them. And and I think that is the saddest part of this question and that that they they felt like they needed to go to draft against to hide it because they were afraid that, like, so many times before, the justice system would fail women. And it probably would have, if we're honest. And it probably would have in in at least some of the cases.

So it's I I think that their actions were absolutely justified, and I, I have no issues saying that. But I think that the the men in this story the husbands, I guess, I shouldn't say all the men. There are other men in the story that aren't bad. But the husbands in this story that got killed had it coming. Just my opinion.

But I think they deserved it. Cue in Chicago's. They had it coming song. They had it coming. What a great song.

Great musical. Anyway, next question. The book takes place during the COVID 19 pandemic. How do you think that setting slash time frame affected the story? Do you think that was a good choice to set the novel during the pandemic?

Well, I mean, setting it during this time allows the characters to grow and figure out and resolve, like, how they're going to get rid of the body. Because, like, if if I were to murder Michael tomorrow, like, people are going to notice. You know? Like, his job is gonna notice. Like, you can't it's just one of those things where you can't you know, you you just don't have the time anymore.

This gave them the time to meet each other and figure out planning and all that stuff. For plot purposes, yes, it makes sense. I think the only problem is because it allowed for the time, that's where it kinda dragged a little for me in the middle where it's like, technically, she had a fortnight to figure out what to do about Jim because he had to go into rotary or whatever his rotation at work or something like that. Yeah. It was just his turn to go in.

Yeah. Right. So it made sense to do it. The only thing that I I found humorous was the fact that they were so worried about the, like, 6 feet. Like, y'all, you murdered your husbands.

Like, at this point, does the 6 feet really matter? Does the social distancing, like, really, this is where we're gonna draw the line if we get fined? Like, I just found that part of your work. Of it was that and how much of it was, like, the police would be involved, and then they would have to explain themselves. Because over there It was a lot.

Got ticketed. Like, they got fined for, like, if they got caught without their family, they got caught in a group. So, like, they probably were I I read it more as, like, yes. They were well, was it Ruth? She was worried about, like, the germs, and Edwina Yeah.

Was more worried about, like, infection, and the others were just like, we really don't need any interaction with the cops and the family. True. I thought that that went that showed, like, their real desperation to get out of the situation that they were in is that these women were not bad people. They were law abiding citizens. They were concerned and wanted to make sure they're following the rules.

And we see that in, like, the COVID stuff. Because you're right. Like, someone who really doesn't give a shit isn't gonna care about that either. Right. But I think that just shows that the these were good people that were in a bad situation that were Oh my gosh.

We're gonna get in trouble for COVID violations, but, also, my husband's in the backyard. Right. I guess if my thing is like, if I'm gonna go in, I'm going all in, I guess. But yeah, I understand. I just I thought that was a little funny, of of all the things to worry about, that's the least thing I would be worrying about.

I'd be like, oh my god. What do I do now? He's like, I have a dead body I need to get rid of. Yeah. That, yep.

That's a 100% correct. And I think a lot of what Barbara said is is pretty much what I have have to think on the the pandemic. I think that it it not only gives it a it gives them time like she said, but I think it also tells an important story about moments like that in history because the I mean, we we saw a a real spike in domestic violence during the lockdowns of COVID when people were stuck in houses together. And so I think, that also that being the background of this is not only important because it actually happened, but it also, allows, you know, it it gave the characters, it it amps things up. They were already in bad situations.

Their husbands were already doing, for the most part, awful things to them. And the fact that they were it was happening all the time, every day, Couldn't get away from it. The husbands were never leaving to go to work. They were never leaving to go do whatever they did in their free time. And I think that in some ways that that pushed the women to do what they did, because it it may maybe it was an maybe you could argue that them killing their husbands was an inevitability.

But I think that if you argue that it was an inevitability, the fact that this was set during the pandemic just, you know, put that into overdrive because they were in a situation where they really felt like they couldn't get out, and there was no break and no time. And, so, yeah, I think it I think it was it was also just you know, since we just lived through this pandemic, it it was interesting to read a a book that was set during that too. So I I thought it was interesting. I thought that was definitely a a good a good way or a good time to set the story. Yeah.

I mean, I feel like their situations were very much maybe an inevitability as far as somebody was gonna die. It was just a matter of, like, them or That's a very good point. The husbands, because I feel like I mean, the the trajectory that all of their stuff was going on was going to result in fatalities one way or another. So it was, like, pick your kill or be killed sort of thing. I've read several novels now that have taken place during COVID, which is just funny because it it feels like, I don't know, weird to have lived through that, and then, like, now people are writing books about it.

And it's just it that was our normal. So, like, I think it's interesting to read novels set during that time period having just kind of come out the other side of it. And like Michael said, I think it, for this particular story, it is important because mental health, domestic violence, like, all of the things that were already problematic got even more problematic during the lockdown, and this really kinda speaks to that. And then, also, it obviously aided in the plot because people weren't seeing each other in person, so it was easier to say, like, oh, he's sick or he's, you know, he's isolating for a co you know, like, those sorts of things. So they had a little bit of, that being in their favor in the sense of now, obviously, like, Michael works remotely, and if Barbara offed Michael, his job would know because he goes to work every day.

Like, she may get away with it for his weekend, but, like, that's about it. It seemed it sounded to me like a lot of this situation was people were, like, maybe only working periodically. I don't know. At least for Jim, he wasn't set to work for, like, a like, 2 weeks like we talked about. And so I don't really know about the other ones if they if if, Ruth's husband was retired maybe.

Or No. He was he did, land landscaping and that kind of stuff, and people were I can't remember what they came up with. Yeah. And For, like, some of the years. I know that your fear was isolating.

Yeah. He was a cab driver, so you can't you shouldn't be really, you know Yeah. Driving people around during the pandemic and all that stuff. So they all had jobs conveniently where they Conveniently. Yes.

Where they, could be missing for a while without anybody wondering. Plus Lyn Lynel was a self self employed. Lynel Yeah. Was self Lynel. Jim worked for, like, a tech company or something.

Right? I don't remember. Yeah. I think that it was something like that where he but they yeah. They were on, like, a rotation schedule, so he got away from that.

Was it it's not furlough was it called furloughed where, like, they were doing they're paying him, but, like, they weren't working. Correct. Okay. Moving on to our next question. Sally become the de facto leader of the group.

What qualities does she possess that make her a natural leader? How does her initial action of killing her husband influence the dynamics of the group? Interesting question. Is it it's me, I think. Right?

Okay. So I think that that Sally has probably always been had the personality of a natural leader. You know, when we got some of her flashback stories and her reminiscing memories with her with Janie and some of her friends from when she was younger and before before she met Jim. I think that she because I I think that for the most part, people that are a natural leader like, there's a reason they call it a natural leader and not trained leader. Like, I think she had some of those qualities to begin with.

And I think that, those qualities were dimmed by Jim, because obviously, he's if he's an abusive husband, he's not gonna want a, you know, strong independent wife. So I think that, that that the the the fact that she, you know, is able to be in intense situations and make, make rational decisions. And the fact that she's clearly able to get people to listen to her and work with her, I I think that those are the qualities that, that made her a natural leader. I don't know how her initial action of killing her husband influenced the dynamics of the group necessarily. I mean, I think that I guess the fact that she murdered her husband and then she is able to tell these other women, hey.

It's okay. You can confide in me. I I killed mine too, I guess. But, I mean, that's that's, like because I guess the the the connecting factor, was they all killed their husbands. That was the the thing that brought them all together with the exception of her and Janie, but I guess, technically, it brought them back together.

Feel like I'm rambling now, so I'm I'm gonna end my thought there. But that's those are my thoughts about how she became the the leader or why she was the leader. Yeah. I feel like the qualities that she possessed that make her a natural leader. She's very perseverant.

She has the ability to remain positive in shitty situations. Like, she was always trying to focus on, you know, what was going well and not what wasn't, even in that dire situation. And then she was able to remain relatively calm in chaos, which is an important leadership quality. I think, you know, every time things got a bit chaotic or people were panicking, she was always the one to kinda bring everybody back together. And then, obviously, her initial action of killing her husband was what connected her with the others to begin with.

So I think So to me, Sally is the glue that holds the group together. She's the one who reaches out to everyone first, and she's the one who goes out of her way to try to help them. Like, with Ruth, she's the one who's like, I saw her with the black eye. Something's happening, and she was the one who took the initiative to go and be like, okay. Not anymore.

If I can do this, you can do this. So I think that's how she became the leader is because she's she's the glue that holds everyone together and kind of assemble them together in the first place. Qualities is just like what you guys have mentioned. Like, she doesn't it's funny because it's I feel like it's one of those people where, like, she couldn't do it for herself, but she's more than willing to help others with the same thing. And then finally, she realized, like, if I can do it for other people, I can do it for myself type mentality.

Okay. So this is the this is the fun question. What would you do if you had to dispose of a fresh corpse through nonofficial means, and would you ask for help? Well, first of all, I feel like it's a little disturbing and concerning that Michael thinks this is fun. But alas As I I said earlier, I like dark humor.

I feel like this this plays into that. Just now what happens to me, you know. Right. I plead the 5th on this one. Just kidding.

I would never share my real plan. Come on. Just kidding. I feel like I with all of the true crime things that I listen to and watch and documentaries, and this book is also kind of, you know, directions almost for for for lack of a better term. I don't know what I would do if I was, to have to dispose of a fresh corpse through nonofficial means.

I think, that's an odd thing to to ponder. If I was in a domestic violence situation, I feel like it would look different than I if if I wasn't. And as far as would I ask for help, I feel like I have a good amount of people that I could, I could call, and there would be no questions. That's such a lawyer way of answering but not answering a question. Just in case someone's, listening to our podcast, I will not be giving out the means of how I murder or how I will get rid of a corpse.

I feel like it would have to it would be situational. Right? Like, it depends on what condition the corpse is in. Like, did I hit them with my car? Did I Right.

Hit them with a frying pan? Are they already, like, you know, in pieces? Do I need to put them you know? Right. Right.

Think I would be capable of any of that, quite honestly. I think I would just cry and call the police and go to prison. But I think it's like, where I was like, does do people actually sit here and, like, think about how they would dispose of Volody? And I'm just sitting here like, oh, is that not a normal thought? No.

I'm just kidding. Just kidding. Barbara's like, this is a daily thought. This is a daily thought. I mean, yeah.

Situate I'm am am I the crazy person who just thinks of these magical situations of everything? Like, what if a dragon shows up and goes, you're the chosen one, Barbara. Would I go? Hell, yeah. I would go.

Like, those are the thoughts that happened in my head. So have I thought about how I would dispose? So I don't sit here and think about it, but, like, if I'm reading something or watching something and I see how they do it, I always think, oh, like, maybe I would have done it this way or, like, oh, they should have done it this way or, like, wow, that's a really good way of doing it. So has have those thoughts crossed my mind? Yes.

I would be lying to say if I I didn't. One of the things I think I can't remember what show we were watching, and I was like, oh god. That's so smart. Like, in in the Everglades or anywhere with, animals that can eat people, like, just dispose the body that way. I'm I would be shocked if we don't find dead bodies hanging around in these locations.

So, yes, would I ask for help? I think it depends. Like if I was in abusive relationship, I feel like, yes, I would. If it was just to murder someone, I don't think so because I there's no justification for that. And I would be upset if I asked for help and my friends helped me when it was just a murder for shiz and giggles type thing.

But, like, if it was in their situation, oh, yeah. I'd be like, girls say less. Here's my shovel. What are we doing type thing? You know?

So I mean, so you never want I mean, you you stole my answer partially because I was gonna say that now that we're in Florida, you just wrap the body up in a tarp, drive to the, a deep part of the swamp, and, you know, toss it into the water. Maybe bring some maybe you should stop at, like, Publix on the way and get some, you know, some cheaper meat of some variety to to toss in to to get things going. And then roll. But do they eat the bones, though? They don't eat the bones.

They they eat every day. I don't I haven't Googled the fact. Pigs eat well, all of it. Do gate are we talking about gators? Do gators I'm talking about gators.

Do gators. I'm saying, like, people apparently, I learned recently that, you can feed a body to pigs, and they eat the bones and everything. No, Who knew? No trace of anything, but I didn't know if gators do too. You just have to remember that.

Now I'm on a watch list. How long it takes for the body to expel that. So you have to keep that in mind as well. True. I think my I'm probably on all kinds of watch lists because I couldn't remember the name of the author for the longest time.

So every time I would try people would be asked, like, what are you reading or whatever in book club, and so I'd have to, like, look up How to Bury Your Husband or Best Way to Bury Your Husband in some a novel. Book. Yeah. A novel. So I'm like, I'm probably on all kinds of watch list.

That's funny. So the answer to your question is yes. Alligators can digest bones and swallow their prey whole. They have extremely acidic stomachs that allow them to digest bones, feathers, hair, and skin. This?

I did. Oh. I mean, I I knew that you needed me to prove it. So I didn't need to prove it. I just said I was not aware of this because I'm not googling this.

So yeah. I mean, I think that that, you know, that's that's probably the best way to handle it down here. And as far as what I ask for help, that that just immediately makes me think of. And I don't know. Have either of you seen The Town, the movie The Town with Ben Affleck?

Unfortunately. So there's a scene in the quote in that movie that makes me think of this. This is which he walks into a a room. He's like, I need your help. Can't tell you what it is.

You can never ask me about it later, and we're gonna hurt some people. And then his friend's response is whose car are we gonna take? So everybody's got friends Yes. Like that. Yes.

I feel like that, no no questions asked. There we go. There's we've all incriminated ourselves on a podcast. So when one of us gets charged for murder, this will be brought up in evidence. Is that a bad thing to say in a song?

Taylor Swift. That adds to Taylor Swift. Yes. Florida, pink and pink. Is that a bad thing to say in a song?

Toledo did you know it. Oh, my my Swifties. Alright. Next question. Did you see the Edwina twist at the end coming?

Yes. Yeah. I feel like it was extremely obvious. You can ask Michael. I literally was like, here's my prediction.

I said, $10. Edwina murdered her husband, buried him under the cherry tree, and that's where all his little body parts are. And that is literally what happened. She did. She totally totally called that.

I actually didn't reach this one. You did. Oh, so it's just me. I'm the only one who didn't. Yeah.

I I I I loved it. I thought that was a a great part of the book to find out that, you know, that she was the OG and was trying to help. And the whole scene where she's, she chases a fox off and, you know, Sally walks back to their community garden and Edwina's got like a a freaking human hand, like, which no one's found my husband after all these years, but it's been 2 weeks and already there's a hand coming up. She was basically like, you guys are not Amateur. I know amateurs.

I loved it. So, no, I didn't say it was coming, but I I I really I I enjoyed that, like, final comedic little extra camaraderie. We got there at the end. Because even without that, I I did feel like, Edwina and Sally were becoming friends. Even though I feel like she kinda saw Edwina as, like, that bad neighbor at the beginning, but I think their relationship was it that was another relationship that was fun to watch grow, but even before we found out that Edwina knew everything.

Yes. From when from the point that she said she didn't want her cherry tree memorial disturbed, I questioned, like, that. And then the fact that there was never any real mention of her significant other I mean, there was a couple mentions. I don't know. I just felt like from the beginning, like, once she mentioned the memorial tree and that she didn't want that the soil disturbed there or something like that, I wasn't sure, like, if she would come forward about it or if they would find out about it in a different way and then, like, have that connection.

So I didn't know how it would come about, but I did predict that that would be the case. Congratulations, Lauren, for being on the Barbara level of prediction. Normally, we normally, we don't get to to enjoy that. I know. I wrote that.

So I'm happy for you. I didn't get to go to her next up, but but I'm happy for you. Let's see. Final question. What do you think happened to the women after the novel ended?

You know, I hope that, Sally gets to, like, rebuild her relationship with her children, in a in a more in a way the way that she always wanted it to be. That was a a really touching moment for her in the book when she realized that she was so worried that if this ever did come out and her kids found out about it, they would just hate her, and they'd never be able to to live without their father. And at one point, it becomes clear to her that it's the other way around. Like, they're gonna be just fine, probably even better, better for it. And so I hope that she's living her best life with her children, and jamming out to Charlie's daily songs still.

I guess we didn't mention that. Charlie's her son, and he sends her a song every day to listen to. That was, like, their way of communication because that was his way of trying to let his mom know things without pissing off dad. So I hope they keep that going, because that was fun to hear to see her, like, jamming out to those songs full volume after her bastard husband died. I hope that the other women are are also are are thriving, you know, living their best life.

I hope that, you know, the ones that were looking for work, get back to work and and start their their careers back up that were stunted by the, the the patriarchy. I I hope that, her Sally and Janie's friend ship is is thriving. I hope that that the children are all well. I hope that, you know, Leila got into Oxford. I hope that I would be was it Oxford or Cambridge she was applying to?

Do you remember The one that she didn't think she could get into? Oxford. Oxford. I hope she got into Oxford, and she's going there now, living her best life, as her true self and not afraid of her father's horrible family that that was, like, both. That was, that was one that we didn't talk about either.

Like, the father's whole family in Pakistan started dying. Because I love how she got cold. She was like, they're all hiding and, like, dropping like flies, and she's like, and it's like I heard. It's funny, but also sad that you have to feel that way about your family. You know?

It's for little I mean, the people that she was doing that with was her uncle and her grandfather. Right? Yep. Yeah. So yeah.

I hope I hope I hope they're all living their best lives. That's, that's what I hope my hope for them. Yeah. To kind of piggyback off of that, I think, you know, it's important to note that Sally it was several times there were several mentions of Sally, like, basically, thinking that she had been hiding the domestic violence situation or, like, the turbulence from her kids. And so, like, they were just gonna be so shocked at all of this stuff.

And I think a lot of times, parents think they're better at hiding things from their kids than they actually are. Kids are very perceptive, and they listen, and they understand more than we give them credit for. And so I feel like it was good to put that in there that, like, the the kids are actually like, no. We know, and we're, like, checking in to make sure that you're okay and, like, that you're safe. And I think once she realized that they knew more than she thought that they did, then, like, she was able to kinda, I don't know, be more honest or about like, be more honest and open about the conversation or the situation.

But like Michael said, I hope that they all just finally found peace in their respective situations and were able to also maintain their connection to each other because I think they forged really good friendships during that whole situation. We obviously get a little glimpse of what Sally does after, you know, starts to help other people that are in in similar, like, domestic violence situations or tries to and really kind of seeks fulfillment in that way. And maybe some of them even, you know, find love again if that's what they want or that that would be more of a healing a healing situation, or maybe they prefer to live the single life. Whatever makes them happiest, they just they all deserve happiness after all of the things that they had to endure. Mhmm.

Yep. I mean, what y'all said. I just hope that they're living their best life true to true to themselves, doing the things that they never thought they could because of their crap husbands and just living the dream regardless of what that looks like, if that's working, helping others, going to school, going back to school, loving who they wanna love, like all the things. I just hope that they're able to finally feel like they're free and that that weightedness is off them and they can just be their true selves. Preach.

I feel like it would kinda be hard to since, like, there was no real, like, resolution, I guess, like, to I wonder if they would just kind of always be looking over their shoulder, kind of, like, waiting for evidence to come or Mhmm. Something that happened to where that it could catch up with them, but hopefully, they'll not I don't know. Edwin has gotten away with it for years now. So I think they're good. What under once under her wings, I think they're golden.

I think without Edwina, they would have been caught, clearly. But I think, I think that's I was wondering about that, but I think that last chapter was just to show, like, Edwin has got them. You know? And, also, I just absolutely I hope they continue their friendship. I hope they, like, do daily things together, and I just I just love the friendship, and I hope they continue it because it's beautiful.

Same. Same. Same. Alright. Let's talk about our individual scores for this one.

Barbara, what did you give the best way to bury your husband? I gave it a 6a half. I honestly do. I know had I gone into this book knowing what it was about more so, I think I would have given I I would the expectation of what it would have been different for me. I feel like the back of the book oversold the promise of, like, the lightness and the comedy aspect and, like, Lauren mentioned where it was, you said something that was so good.

Like, it was dark comedy with the dark. I don't know. Whatever you said earlier, that's how I felt. Comedies throughout versus light, like, comedy with darkness throughout. I was expecting comedy with darkness throughout, not darkness with comedy throughout.

So I think I honestly, I do find it's a disservice of whoever typed that up or whoever wrote in, like, dark comedy. I think it does the book a disservice because as someone like me, I was expecting something. I got something else because of that. Out like, if I I I if I didn't have that, I I would have felt a lot differently about the book. The only thing that I did really struggle with regardless of it is I I feel like it was very slow and dragged quite a bit in the middle.

Yeah. That that that's our opinions are very similar for this book, Barbara. I liked it. I thought it was a good story that needed to be told. I did think it got slow at times, and I also think I would have probably given it a different rating, had I not had a different expectation for the amount of comedy that would be in it.

So my score was a 6 out of 10 for this one. I enjoyed it overall. I gave it a 7. I think, like, I was viewing it more as dark with comedy, so I don't think I read it in the same way that you guys did, because I was expecting it to be a little bit darker. And I didn't I mean, I listened to it, so that may play a role also in, like, pacing.

But it was a pretty quick listen, and so I felt like, were there scenes where I felt like maybe it was dragging on a little bit? Yeah. But overall, I felt like it was fine. But that's just me. Hey.

I'm average. Yay. Yes. The group score is Barbara's score. She threatened earlier this morning, Lauren, because the group score was so easy to calculate to go in and give it, like, a 6 point 347 or something just to piss me off.

She would. She would. She I I I think she was really going to, and then I was like, you better go. Would not. I know how you feel about it.

Jeez. Can't I even I mean, realistically, I wouldn't have cared if you did. It just would've I would've made a joke about it like I have every other time. It's been, like, some random ass decimal for the average because of your scores. Not just you.

Lauren also leaves, sometimes complicated decimal scores. So make sure you're following Badass Literature Society for free in your favorite podcast app. Give us a rating and leave us a review if they allow you to. Also, don't forget to follow us on social media. Our handle on both Instagram and Facebook is at badasslippod.

Have feedback about today's episode? You can contact us by writing to badass literature society atgmail.com. You can also send us a DM or leave a comment on Instagram or Facebook. As always, thank you so much for listening. I'm Michael.

I'm Barbara. And I'm Lauren. And remember, this is a self help guide to how to protect your husband. I yes. An addendum to this, when I recommended it, my my mom's book club Mhmm.

One of our members is a an attorney and, has a very dry sense of humor, and she was requesting it at the library because it's so new. So you can put it on, like, a library request list, and the little old lady behind the counter was asking her, like, oh, what is the genre? And she said, self help, Like, just deadpan, straight face. And the lady behind her, I guess, was, like, clutching pearls, like that sort of reaction. And then she's like, no.

No. It's fiction. So I was really sorry when she read that. So That is amazing. I would like to be her.

She sounds fun. So I guess along along that same line, for for people that are some reason still here at the end of the episode like this, if they tell you that I'm out sick and I'm gone from multiple episodes He is sick. No. No. He's just sick.

Just sick. Call the call the police. He's got a copy of this. This episode, specifically that question that Barbara answered about how she'd get rid of body. Oh, I didn't give anything away.

My secrets are mine to keep. And with that, bye. Bye.